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Auteur Fil de discussion: Release a Statement Supporting the Actions and Existence of Wikileaks  (Lu 527 fois)
Steve Henderson
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« Répondre #30 le: 7 d�cembre 2010, 04:37:54 »
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And you think the leak of personal information didn't contribute to that at all? It would be like if the UK government published the name and address of every sex offender, then acted surprised by the mob lynchings. Oh wait, they already do that. Doesn't excuse irrational behaviour just because it's popular, though.
Indeed. You are completely correct.
We don't need their help with drafting press releases. What position we take and how we react will be decided by the Federal Council and members of the Pirate Party, no one else.
My apologies, Mikkel. I didn't mean to suggest we contact Wikileaks and involve them in the creation of a press release or for help constructing our position. I was only suggesting it as an option for if at some point we needed to comb through the copious amount of documents Wikileaks has released.
There is no evidence that the BNP is a racist/facist organization - because wikipedia says so, doesn't make it true.
I've seen the BNP website and their policy, and I fail to see anything racist or even close to fascism - therefore they are mainly nationalist.
As I said before, I have absolutely no desire to further discuss this issue within this thread. If you would like to discuss it, perhaps this discussion would be better in the Political Discussion board. Anyway, I apologize for upsetting you.
Another reason I have reservation about how we voice our support is we are a political party and cannot be seen as explicitly supporting hacking. However, revelation like the fact that the Spanish copyright law was written by the U.S. are fair game IMHO. Wikileak on a lot of instances replaced the job of what media used to do back when investigative journalism were done by journalist who risked their lives to expose government's malpractice. So on matters relating to government actions, Wikileaks are acting like a journalist. They did not do the hacking themselves but are merely releasing information given to them by an insider. Some government agency protect whistle-blower for the purpose of encouraging exposé of malpractice (e.g. The Public Servants Disclosure Protection Act). However on matters where a private citizen's information is released without their consent, then it depends on the value of the information in relation to keeping the government honest. If the individual is not involved in wrong doing then their name should be blocked out. We can maybe release a statement to that effect if we are to support Wikileaks for keeping government accountable. Although for the latter case, judging the value of information and individual's involvement in some instances might be too subjective.
As far as the notion that a political party cannot explicitly support breaking into computer systems goes, I agree with you. However, while these actions clearly result in increased government transparency, most of the population doesn't have enough of an understanding of the concept for hacking to be mentioned in the press release, at least in my opinion. Also, I feel that specifically mentioning information we feel should not be included in the releases could be viewed as censorship by many people (n addition to subjectivity), and puts PPC on thin ice. I think Mikkel said it best in the Wikileaks Special Meeting thread. All we need to do is "[maintain] the reservation that personal information should not be needlessly compromised by leaked information."

Ayes
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« Répondre #31 le: 8 d�cembre 2010, 02:51:56 »
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Wikileaks' is a perfect representation of the power of the internet to restore democracy. The potential for Wikileaks to make positive chain is so enormous, we can't judge them on these, the last, or the next leaks alone. How the site works is why it must be protected. Techno-Journalism could save humanity from our corruptable plutocrat overlords.

I'm glad this is being put to a vote in the party, but if we don't follow the precedent set by the Swedish Pirate Party and strongly support wikileaks I'm not sure if we're even worth a shake in this political game.

snuck up behind him and took his Quran - he said something about burning the Quran and I was like dude you have no Quran
Mikkel Paulson
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« Répondre #32 le: 8 d�cembre 2010, 03:11:12 »
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Allow me to reiterate my comments made introducing debate at the meeting this evening:

Citation
[20:14] <+MikkelPaulson> you're all aware of the situation regarding WikiLeaks, no doubt
[20:14] <+MikkelPaulson> a number of Pirate Parties around the world have come out in support
[20:15] <+MikkelPaulson> with several even hosting mirrors
[20:15] <+MikkelPaulson> however, we have the responsibility to ensure that our core values are not violated when responding to this issue
[20:15] <+MikkelPaulson> WikiLeaks certainly supports open government, which is an important part of our platform
[20:16] <+MikkelPaulson> however, they have also leaked significant amounts of personal information about private individuals, including the membership list for the BNP, a controversial registered political party in the UK, which resulted in firings, social sanctions, and other non-official measures taken against members
[20:17] <+MikkelPaulson> this blatant disregard for the personal information of individuals is in violation of another point in our core values
[20:17] <+MikkelPaulson> therefore, any action we take needs to be in consideration of these two conflicting points
[20:17] <+MikkelPaulson> the Federal Council has the authority to act unilaterally in this regard
[20:17] <+MikkelPaulson> and normally would, in the case of a less-controversial matter
[20:17] <+MikkelPaulson> however, this is an extraordinary time
[20:18] <+MikkelPaulson> and opinion within the party is as divided as it is outside
[20:18] <+MikkelPaulson> therefore, I put it to the membership to decide how we should respond
[20:18] <+MikkelPaulson> this first point is a broad one and should be where most of the debate takes place
[20:18] <+MikkelPaulson> discussion of subsequent motions should be regarding specific actions to take based on what takes place neow
[20:18] <+MikkelPaulson> *now
[20:19] <+MikkelPaulson> I myself am divided on the matter, and look forward to your arguments
Ayes
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« Répondre #33 le: 8 d�cembre 2010, 07:45:27 »
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You have any particular sources or reasons to back up that claim?

Positive change Wikileaks has Influenced:

  • * Leaked the ACTA discussion papers that were instrumental in the formation of our party's ideals.
  • * The media attention has re-invigorated an old debate about press freedom.
  • * Silvio Berlusconi faces a vote of non confidence Dec 14th based on corruption allegations in the new cables.
  • * The American people can now be aware of the secret war in Yemen.
  • * The world knows that Hilary Clinton authorized illegal spying on UN diplomats.
  • * Influenced the outcome of an election in kenya
  • * Although it goes against our privacy platform here, leaking the BNP membership list severely decreased the membership of it, which weakened a racist and fairly awful party in the UK.
  • * Assange just saying that they had files on bank of america lowered stock value the next day, which shows the political sway they have.

Wikileaks has released more confidential information to the public since they started than the mainstream media has in it's entire run. I know you seem to have a problem with Wikileaks yourself, voting down my comment and criticizing my posts in both WL threads, but it's a futile debate for you to say that they can't make change, or that they haven't made change.

These real life verifiable world changing events show amazing potential. Now, if anyone anywhere feels like the data they have access to shows corruption or is in the public's interest, they can reliably anonymously give it to an organization who will release it and protect their identity. It's getting harder for whistle blowers to get that kind of protection, particularly in third world nations, and its because of this that Wikileaks is extremely important and must be protected.

As a side note: When people vote down a decent, reasonable comment, just because they don't agree with it, that is major weak chips.

snuck up behind him and took his Quran - he said something about burning the Quran and I was like dude you have no Quran
Joshua Doucet
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« Répondre #34 le: 8 d�cembre 2010, 08:58:18 »
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So no negative change that you are gonna list? Then by default you are being bias towards wikileaks by (forming an erroneous decision) without keeping an open mind on both the negative and positive aspect together.

A true pirate takes both aspect into account (as with Mikkel, Bleskie and some others did) when coming to a rational conclusion on which stance to taken -  a person that is too heavily focus solely on either positive OR negative aspect, will come to an erroneous decision.



And your on the other end of the spectrum not seeing any positive. I think your finished your input on the topic. Your going on and on is turning people away from voting your way.
michealPW
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« Répondre #35 le: 9 d�cembre 2010, 09:55:32 »
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Hey everyone,

I have a couple things to say. Well I had a lot to say, but Steve Henderson and Mikkel Paulson said a lot of it before I had the chance LMAO.

First, I'm going to have to man up and admit I haven't heard of the Pirate Party of Canada... I am a 26 year old web developer, long-time pirate and I remember Napster (HEH!) yet I have never heard of this Party ^_^

Second, I will also admit that I only took notice of WikiLeaks as the campaign to censor them began. As a web developer, I took great offense to the idea of internet censorship. With that being said, I heard nothing of this British National Party incident LOL and really I don't think that's even of issue here... I don't care what they're leaking. I don't care who is leaking it. It could all be FUD for all I care. To take hosting away, domains away, sieze bank accounts, withdraw online payment services as well as credit card services when the organization hasn't broken any laws, nobody has been formerly charged or has even had a trial yet... That's when I care. That's when ALL pirates, at the very least, should care! Think about it for 5 minutes, seriously... If they can do it to WikiLeaks why can they not use the same premise to bring down the Pirate Bay, THIS website, or ANY OTHER site that the government doesn't like!

Now with my 2 points... You should put together the 3rd easily, but just in case, here it is:

You, more than ANY group, should be outraged by this attempt to censor WikiLeaks and remove it from the internet. More than anybody, Pirate Party's of the world should feel very, very threatened by the premise trying to be set during all this. You should waste no time in proclaiming your support for Net Neutrality and Freedom of the Press! By doing so, you can get your party's NAME IN THE CANADIAN NEWS! ^_^

"Any attention is good attention" or something

 - michealPW.
Joshua Doucet
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« Répondre #36 le: 9 d�cembre 2010, 11:50:42 »
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Many of us are outraged, I myself am very unhappy. I hope it shows in the upcoming voting results on whether we choose to support Wikileaks or not.

 I'm optimistic

You said it right Micheal
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