[20:00] <@MikkelPaulson> okay, it's 8:00 EDT
[20:00] <@MikkelPaulson> so as leader I'll call this meeting to order
[20:00] <highvoltage> yay
[20:00] <@MikkelPaulson> until we can elect a proper chair for future meetings
[20:00] <@MikkelPaulson> thanks for coming, folks
[20:01] <DLS> what's the agenda for tonight?
[20:01] <@MikkelPaulson> first order of business would be the chair and clerk, which will be elected positions from this point forward
[20:01] <@MikkelPaulson> right now we have exactly one candidate for each
[20:01] <@MikkelPaulson> coppro for chair, and rintaran for clerk
[20:01] <@MikkelPaulson> if anyone else would be interested in standing against them for election, now's the time
[20:01] <@MikkelPaulson> job descriptions
[20:01] <@MikkelPaulson> Chair (currently appointed on a per-meeting basis)
[20:01] <@MikkelPaulson> The person in charge of general meetings. The chair moderates debate, establishes agendas, and can accept motions and censor
disruptive attendees.
[20:01] <@MikkelPaulson> Clerk (currently Mikkel)
[20:01] <@MikkelPaulson> Responsible for taking votes, publishing minutes, and keeping a record of documents and motions passed. The clerk should have
sole access to voting records. Allowing directors access to this data would give us the opportunity to falsify votes. Since this information is
published to the forum, it provides another good reason to remove directors from roles as forum moderators. The clerk should either have basic PHP/MySQL
experience or app
[20:02] <DLS> that's awesome, very well put
[20:02] <@MikkelPaulson> any other candidates?
[20:02] <rintaran> Was the PHP/MySQL part listed on the site? I don't remember reading that bit.
[20:03] <@MikkelPaulson> yeah sorry, I added that after you volunteered
[20:03] <@MikkelPaulson> and I think we're going to use the wiki instead
[20:03] <@MikkelPaulson> so don't sweat it
[20:03] <rintaran> Wiki I can handle. I know a little bit of PHP, but almost nothign of MySQL.
[20:04] <@MikkelPaulson> right now our public and telephone votes are stored in a MySQL database, to which ideally you should be the only person with
access
[20:05] <@MikkelPaulson> well, seeing no other candidates, I declare coppro elected for the position of chair and rintaran for the position of clerk,
both by acclamation
[20:05] <@MikkelPaulson> congratulations, gentlemen
[20:05] <rintaran> Cool.
[20:05] <MissKitty> so say we all
[20:06] <@MikkelPaulson> I'll give you a run-down of the responsibilities later on
[20:06] <@MikkelPaulson> I don't think coppro was able to be with us tonight, so we'll need someone to chair this meeting
[20:06] <@MikkelPaulson> any volunteers?
[20:06] <rintaran> Elected to two things in as many months. lol
[20:06] <DLS> coppro, rintaran, congrats
[20:06] <@MikkelPaulson> quiet bunch tonight, huh?
[20:07] * coppro is back
[20:07] <coppro> oh
[20:07] <@MikkelPaulson> brilliant timing
[20:07] <coppro> these positions should not be done by acclamation
[20:07] <coppro> they need to be confirmed by a majority
[20:07] <@MikkelPaulson> very well
[20:07] <MissKitty> don't we need to verify before voting?
[20:07] <@MikkelPaulson> we don't have a clerk right now
[20:08] <@MikkelPaulson> so a voice vote should suffice
[20:08] <MissKitty> oh, sry...
[20:08] <coppro> you could just try to do it by consent
[20:08] <coppro> I don't see any issues in the logs
[20:08] <@MikkelPaulson> all in favour of coppro's appointment please say aye, all opposed say no
[20:08] Vote was taken on Chair. 5 Ayes 0 Nays 2 Abstain.
[20:09] <@MikkelPaulson> all in favour of rintaran's appointment as clerk please say aye, all opposed say no
[20:10] Vote was taken on Clerk. 5 Ayes 0 Nays 2 Abstain.
[20:10] <coppro> Do we have a mass highlight available?
[20:10] <@MikkelPaulson> the ayes have it
[20:10] <@MikkelPaulson> coppro and rintaran are elected chair and clerk, respectively
[20:10] <@MikkelPaulson> what do you mean?
[20:11] <coppro> to ping everyone
[20:11] <@MikkelPaulson> nope
[20:11] <@MikkelPaulson> I now cede the chair to coppro
[20:12] <@coppro> |R zeroedout vino sta1ns sleslie Silke sidek rush Roderick piratedu Name141 Mogwai LUF lcameron Joshua jethomas Jeremy JayEmerson
highvoltage Fal` Doublethink doconnor DLS dj_datavirus627 dichter Cyan Azalyn afk AdamS coreymon77 Nuitari: meeting
[20:12] <MikkelPaulson> that'll do in a pinch
[20:12] <Jeremy> yay
[20:12] <coreymon77> shmeh?
[20:13] <@coppro> Okay. Before we begin, a few notes: First, we will be running under a different meeting procedure from previous meetings. For the most
part, this shouldn't matter, but if you have any questions, you don't know how to do something, etc. , please PM me.
[20:14] <@coppro> I will not participate in discussion without ceding the chair (ideally to MikkelPaulson as party leader), except to add information.
[20:14] <@coppro> I will not vote unless it affects the outcome
[20:15] <@coppro> If you want a vote to be exposed to the whole party, unless it's required to be done that way, it requires a majority to put the
motion before the whole party. Otherwise votes will be taken only from those present
[20:15] <@coppro> rintaran: As clerk, you will be identifying voters?
[20:16] <@coppro> I'd appreciate you +v them to make it easy
[20:16] <@rintaran> I believe so.
[20:16] <@rintaran> Yup. Verified. I do. People PM me their ID numbers, and then just PM me their votes as we go along.
[20:17] <@coppro> I would prefer doing voice votes as it's faster
[20:17] <@coppro> since the results should be immediately obvious
[20:17] <MikkelPaulson> coppro: if we are to have periods during which only certain members are permitted to speak, we shouldn't +v anyone else
[20:17] <@coppro> I would prefer to selectively deal with those as necessary
[20:18] <MikkelPaulson> very well
[20:18] <@coppro> Giving +v makes it immediately obvious who can vote if we take voice votes
[20:18] <MikkelPaulson> voice votes are fine for motions to amend or adjourn, but for the substantive matters that will go to web and telephone voting,
we should do it by PM
[20:18] <@rintaran> I don't need your ID and PIN now... We don't have any silent votes required right now.
[20:18] <@coppro> If they will go out, yes, I agree
[20:19] <MikkelPaulson> anyway, enough procedure
[20:19] <@coppro> rintaran: We should make sure people are identified so that they can be identified in proceedings
[20:19] <@coppro> plus identifying in advance is good
[20:19] <DLS> we've always identified at the beg. of the meeting
[20:19] <@rintaran> Alright. Haven't been to too many of them yet.
[20:20] <@coppro> Apologies for the delay, by the way, hopefully we'll sort this out in the future
[20:20] <DLS> hrr
[20:20] *** -coppro@#canada- Everyone, please send your member IDs and PINs to rintaran for identification
[20:21] <MikkelPaulson> you should have received both ID and PIN by email
[20:21] <MikkelPaulson> or in the mail attached to your beautiful membership card
[20:21] <DLS> (very) beautiful
[20:21] <MikkelPaulson>
[20:22] <@coppro> there, now you can +v and we're distinct (please +v members as they identify)
[20:22] <MissKitty> pm rintaran
[20:22] <@coppro> Okay, with that, let's begin. Do we have business
[20:22] <MissKitty> sorry
[20:22] <@coppro> ?
[20:22] <MikkelPaulson> very well
[20:23] <MikkelPaulson> I'd like to move a 20-minute discussion on the matter of the Winnipeg North by-election
[20:23] <%rintaran> +v MikkelPaulson
[20:23] <%rintaran> lol. That's not how that works. lol
[20:23] <MikkelPaulson> rintaran: /mode +v MikkelPaulson
[20:23] <@coppro> rintaran: /voice or /mode +v
[20:23] <%rintaran> Got it.
[20:23] <@coppro> Okay, is there a second?
[20:23] <MissKitty> second
[20:24] <@coppro> Okay, the motion is that there be a 20-minute discussion of the Winnipeg North by-election. Any objections?
[20:24] <@coppro> Very well, the motion carries
[20:24] <@coppro> Discussion is open
[20:25] <MikkelPaulson> okay
[20:25] <MikkelPaulson> this is something that has been addressed quite a few times before
[20:25] <MikkelPaulson> but we have some major movements in that regard
[20:25] <MikkelPaulson> I will be travelling to Winnipeg October 23–28 to coordinate operations there
[20:26] <MissKitty> date of by-election?
[20:26] <MikkelPaulson> not set yet, but it has to be called before the 27th
[20:26] <DLS> MikkelPaulson: where do you plan on staying?
[20:26] <MikkelPaulson> the 25th is the earliest date for the by-election in Vaughan and the 27th is the latest for Winnipeg North
[20:27] <MikkelPaulson> so assuming that Elections Canada wants to save effort by doing them simultaneously it'll probably be in that window
[20:27] <MikkelPaulson> dls: at the hostel there
[20:27] <MikkelPaulson> we're not exactly made of money, and it's always nice to have leftovers to spend on the campaign
[20:27] <DLS> i sure woulda wished some local PPCA supported could host you
[20:28] <DLS> "support"
[20:28] <MissKitty> that would have been great...
[20:28] <MikkelPaulson> well, I'll ask if anyone would be willing to do so while I'm out there, but I don't want to take it for granted
[20:28] <DLS> and build a team while you're at least, some core
[20:28] <MikkelPaulson> we don't have any activity at all in Winnipeg right now
[20:28] <MikkelPaulson> so it's my job to stir things up
[20:28] <MissKitty> no members at all?
[20:28] <MikkelPaulson> about 60 members
[20:28] <MikkelPaulson> none active
[20:28] <DLS> bah, it only takes 1 phonecall
[20:28] <MikkelPaulson> except Biogrand, a little bit
[20:29] <MikkelPaulson> it took 60 phone calls
[20:29] <DLS> :~
[20:29] <MikkelPaulson> and we should have between 20 and 30 people at the meeting I've scheduled on the day of my arrival
[20:29] <DLS> nice
[20:29] <MikkelPaulson> that's what I mean when I say stir things up
[20:29] <MikkelPaulson> I will be looking for locals who might want to stand for election in my place
[20:29] <MissKitty> sweet
[20:29] <MikkelPaulson> since ideally we'll have a candidate from Winnipeg who is able to be there for the entire campaign
[20:29] <DLS> that's awesome
[20:30] <MikkelPaulson> I can do it in a pinch, but the time I've spent in Winnipeg before is measured in hours
[20:30] <MikkelPaulson> and not into the double digits either
[20:30] *** doconnor has quit IRC: Ping timeout
[20:30] <MikkelPaulson> I'll also be looking for an agent/campaign manager and PR manager
[20:30] <MikkelPaulson> so hopefully we'll get some volunteers there
[20:31] <MissKitty> wow, this is really going to happen
[20:31] <DLS> so what's the planned budget for that?
[20:31] <MikkelPaulson> my trip will cost about $700
[20:31] <MikkelPaulson> we have $1300 in total available for the campaign
[20:31] <DLS> i guess i'm ready to vote
[20:32] <MikkelPaulson> although as soon as I (or another candidate) is registered, we will be able to issue tax receipts
[20:32] <MikkelPaulson> which will hopefully open new revenue streams
[20:32] <DLS> it will
[20:32] <MissKitty> donations will pick up
[20:32] <MikkelPaulson> this is one major reason for wanting to contest this by-election
[20:32] <PirateFox> I can't do anything locally, but I'm very good with writing, and if you'd want, I'd be willing to handle the media
releases/responses.
[20:32] <%rintaran> Definitely. Once registered, the Ottawa Chapter will be able to hold a couple fund-raisers.
[20:32] <%rintaran> I think that's going to be a part of the discussion on the 6th for our local meeting.
[20:32] <MikkelPaulson> it will also make us the first registered pirate party outside of Europe, and whoever stands for election the first candidate
[20:33] <MissKitty> Nice!
[20:33] <DLS> MtotheL
[20:33] * DLS cheers
[20:33] *** doconnor has joined #canada
[20:33] <MikkelPaulson> rintaran: with luck, we will be a registered party by the time your meeting takes place
[20:34] <%rintaran> Luck has nothing to do with it. It's all planning.
[20:34] <%rintaran> And more importantly, execution.
[20:34] <MikkelPaulson> indeed
[20:34] <doconnor> Do you have a pamphet to hand out on the campaign trail?
[20:34] <MikkelPaulson> not yet
[20:34] <MikkelPaulson> nor do we have business cards
[20:35] <PirateFox> Well since that's the only thing I can help with, I guess I can't do anything to help the campaign.
[20:35] <%rintaran> Is the style guide still not completed re: business cards/pamphlets? Or are they just en-route to printers?
[20:35] <MikkelPaulson> wouldn't your writing skills go more to waste if we DID already have something written?
[20:35] <PirateFox> yes
[20:35] <MikkelPaulson> rintaran: the style guide hasn't been started, except in general terms
[20:36] <%rintaran> Ah
[20:36] <MissKitty> did a visual identity committee materialize>
[20:36] <PirateFox> But you might need someone handling the press. Especially if the US media decide to do news bites on it
[20:36] <MissKitty> ?
[20:36] <MikkelPaulson> yes
[20:36] <MikkelPaulson> it's there
[20:36] <MikkelPaulson> but it hasn't done anything yet
[20:37] <MikkelPaulson> we've been a bit distracted with more immediate concerns
[20:37] <%rintaran> Or hasn't released anything yet.
[20:38] <MikkelPaulson> PirateFox: we do have a PR manager and spokesman, but neither of them have been able to be as engaged as I would like of late
[20:38] <PirateFox> I would, however need a sheet of pointers so I could get things straight. Could someone produce a notarized list of info about us
and our positions for use with the media?
[20:38] <PirateFox> Ah ok
[20:38] <MikkelPaulson> I will be appointing a local PR contact in Winnipeg for the campaign coverage
[20:38] <%rintaran> Ok. So you're flying out to Winnipeg, to have a meeting with local pirates. You have no brochures or business cards. And you're
still looking to drum up a local candidate if at all possible? I have that right?
[20:38] <PirateFox> Are you sure just one person would be able to handle it?
[20:38] <MikkelPaulson> basically
[20:39] <MikkelPaulson> the media? yes
[20:39] <%rintaran> Alright. Making sure I'm up to speed on the facts.
[20:39] <MikkelPaulson> we're making waves, but they're not very big waves
[20:39] <PirateFox> ok, as long as you're sure
[20:39] <MikkelPaulson> any help is always welcome, of course
[20:39] <MikkelPaulson> if you're interested, I'd love to have you on the PR committee
[20:39] <MissKitty> big waves have to start somewhere
[20:39] <PirateFox> k
[20:39] <DLS> to keep things simple, by running in W-N we will be eligible to give receipts for donations
[20:40] <PirateFox> Oh. I'd love that, MikkelPaulson.
[20:40] <MikkelPaulson> and with the media focusing specifically on the by-election, that's some pretty good coverage across the board
[20:40] <MikkelPaulson> PirateFox: email
[email protected][20:40] <PirateFox> I'm good with explaining things I feel strongly about
[20:40] <PirateFox> ok I will. Going to go pick up some dinner first
[20:40] <MikkelPaulson> sounds lovely
[20:41] <PirateFox> Can't concentrate while hungry very well. Be back in about 30 mins
[20:41] <DLS> voting's in 2 mins :\
[20:41] <DLS> don't leave now
[20:41] <MikkelPaulson> no vote
[20:41] <MikkelPaulson> this is just a discussion period
[20:41] <MikkelPaulson> anyway, that's the plan as it stands now
[20:42] <DLS> discussion, then vote?
[20:42] <MikkelPaulson> if you know anyone in Winnipeg, tell them to attend
[20:42] <DLS> i thoughed that's how things were done
[20:42] <MikkelPaulson> no, I just moved for a discussion period
[20:42] <MikkelPaulson> this isn't a motion
[20:42] <@coppro> The motion to hold a discussion period was adopted by consent
[20:42] <MikkelPaulson> anyway, are there any additional questions or comments about that?
[20:42] <%rintaran> Do you have any materials to bring with you to the meeting? What discussion topics are you planning to bring up?
[20:43] <MikkelPaulson> I'm planning to outline our platform in brief, ask for volunteers for specific roles, then discuss campaign strategies for the
coming days
[20:43] <%rintaran> Aside from "we could use a local candidate)
[20:43] <PirateFox> o
[20:43] <MissKitty> will you be door-knocking in the constituency?
[20:43] <MikkelPaulson> yes
[20:43] <MikkelPaulson> we need to collect 100 signatures for the nomination form
[20:43] <%rintaran> Perhaps we can assist with coming up with soem campaign strategies while we're still in discussion?
[20:44] <DLS> you should bring stickers to colleges
[20:44] <MikkelPaulson> dls: oh I will
[20:44] <MissKitty> yes, you should visit the university
[20:44] <MikkelPaulson> and shirts
[20:44] <MikkelPaulson> the meeting is at the university
[20:44] <MikkelPaulson> we're renting a classroom
[20:44] <PirateFox> Ask if the big-box retailers would let you talk to people in front of the store in the parking lot
[20:44] <DLS> awesome
[20:44] <PirateFox> But they might be hostile, your choice
[20:45] <MissKitty> maybe a barbecue in the parking lot?
[20:45] <PirateFox> sure
[20:45] <MikkelPaulson> PirateFox: they have no choice
[20:45] <DLS> MikkelPaulson: you'll need a pirate flag
[20:45] <PirateFox> You could bribe em with proceeds
[20:45] <DLS> for a BBQ
[20:45] <PirateFox> say, 10%
[20:45] <MikkelPaulson> public places, even privately-owned, must grant registered candidates access for campaigning purposes
[20:45] <PirateFox> And sell hot dogs and bbq stuff
[20:45] <PirateFox> ahhh ok
[20:45] <MikkelPaulson> anyway, in light of discussion, I move that the discussion period be extended indefinitely, and that coppro be granted
permission to leave the chair to make additional comments on this matter
[20:46] <MissKitty> second
[20:46] <@coppro> May I make a suggestion?
[20:46] <PirateFox> third
[20:46] <MikkelPaulson> by all means
[20:46] <%rintaran> Holding a BBQ is a little more complicated than just setting up and going. There are a lot of licenses that you have to pay to
acquire. Should be able to manage with the funds available, but it'll deplete a chunk.
[20:46] <@coppro> If there is no substantiative business, we should simply adjourn the meeting and discuss informally
[20:46] <DLS> coppro: if there is no agenda, most def
[20:46] <MikkelPaulson> coppro: that would leave this off the record, would it not?
[20:46] <PirateFox> Agreed
[20:47] <@coppro> MikkelPaulson: The clerk could be directed to produce a transcript
[20:47] <@coppro> or just to do it anyways
[20:47] <PirateFox> Our decisions aren't suitably ordered to deserve a meeting at the current time
[20:47] <@coppro> *just do it anyways
[20:47] <PirateFox> Discussions, rather
[20:47] <%rintaran> I plan to post minutes up to this point at the least. Posting a transcript would be simple enough in addition.
[20:47] <@coppro> If anyone predicts a substantiative motion may arise, then we probably want to recess the meeting
[20:48] <PirateFox> I think we should make a list of what things we need to plan for, by section, and discuss each one. EG recruiting candidates,
canvassing, etc
[20:49] <PirateFox> Agree?
[20:49] <@coppro> Alternatively, we could proceed to informal consideration of a dummy motion
[20:49] <@coppro> (such as a motion to encourage the party to pursue interest in Winnipeg)
[20:49] <%rintaran> Creating a critical path for the election would be helpful.
[20:49] <%rintaran> It could then be used as the starting point for future elections.
[20:50] <@coppro> At this point, the discussion is over
[20:50] <@coppro> and just the procedural discussion should be taking place - I imagine the discussion of the election will repoen one way or another
[20:50] <Jeremy> unrelated to winnipeg, can anyone give me a ballpark of how many members we have in the toronto area?
[20:51] <@coppro> MikkelPaulson: do you wish towithdraw your motion, or shall I state it as it stands?
[20:51] <@coppro> *withdraw or amend
[20:51] <MikkelPaulson> I'll withdraw it for the time being
[20:51] <@coppro> ok
[20:52] <@coppro> Any other motions?
[20:52] <MikkelPaulson> Jeremy: 200ish
[20:52] <MikkelPaulson> 150?
[20:52] * lcameron thinks he forgot about a meeting...
[20:52] <MikkelPaulson> very few of them are active
[20:52] <@coppro> I will adjourn the meeting if there areting if there is no other motions?
[20:52] <Jeremy> this is my first meeting (that I've attended), would discussing toronto be a motion?
[20:53] <@coppro> Jeremy: If you wish to open it in context of the meeting, it should be.
[20:53] <Jeremy> I'm wondering whether it is worthwhile to try to set up local meetings and activity here
[20:53] <MikkelPaulson> always
[20:53] <MikkelPaulson> I was there a couple of months ago and arranged a meeting
[20:53] <MikkelPaulson> promoted it on Facebook, Twitter, and the forum
[20:53] <@coppro> Personally, I would recommend that at we either a) adjoiurn the meeting or b) put forth a motion directing the party to seek a by-
election in <FOO> and then discuss the strategy
[20:53] <Jeremy> how many people attended?
[20:54] <MissKitty> if meeting is adjourned, will (informal) discussion continue on by-election?
[20:54] <MikkelPaulson> 3
[20:54] <MikkelPaulson> including my two sisters
[20:54] <@coppro> MissKitty: I imagine
[20:54] <MikkelPaulson> who planned to leave if anyone else showed and we started talking shop
[20:54] <MissKitty> ok
[20:54] <MikkelPaulson> wasn't our finest hour
[20:54] <@coppro> sorry, my connection is laggy
[20:54] <@coppro> Does anyone wish to put forth a motion? This is the last call
[20:54] <%rintaran> Mikkel. There was a big concert here in Ottawa. 5 bands. They did all their advertising the same way. 17 people showed up.
[20:55] <%rintaran> People still rely on more traditional methods for their communication and advertising, as much as it is changing.
[20:55] <MissKitty> so we go old school, put up posters etc.?
[20:55] <%rintaran> Don't feel bad about it. The planner was also a seasoned vet. Runs the folk festival here for past 20 years.
[20:56] <MikkelPaulson> MissKitty: and phone people
[20:57] <%rintaran> But, back on topic, I move that the party seek to run someone in a by-election in Winnepeg North.
[20:57] <MissKitty> amend motion to state that, if no local candidate, Mikkel will run
[20:57] <%rintaran> I will happily restate.
[20:58] <MikkelPaulson> I am already running for candidacy by our established procedure
[20:58] <@coppro> okay, I will take that as a second
[20:58] <MikkelPaulson> it doesn't need any further consideration
[20:58] <MikkelPaulson> but I will stand aside or I can be voted out if someone else comes forward
[20:59] <@coppro> rintaran: Do you wish to submit the motion as restated?
[21:00] <@coppro> ...
[21:00] <%rintaran> Yes: I move that the party seek to run someone in a by-election in Winnipeg North, and if no local candidate steps forward, Mikkel
be granted the opportunity to run as per the pirate party condidacy procedure.
[21:00] <MikkelPaulson> I move that the motion as stated be considered informally, and that coppro leave the chair to be able to join discussion
[21:00] <DLS> seconded
[21:00] <@coppro> The motion is as stated by rintaran
[21:00] <%rintaran> Which are you seconding DLS?
[21:01] <@coppro> Then we'll add Mikkel's motion that it be considered informally
[21:01] <DLS> Mikkel's
[21:01] <@coppro> Are there any objections to informal consideration?
[21:01] <%rintaran> I have no real objection.
[21:01] <%rintaran> Was just trying to move along the meeting.
[21:02] <@coppro> Okay, we will proceed with informal consideration. I will keep my +o so that someone has it, but will otherwise not be the chari - though I may chide someone for getting offtopic