[Mikkel Paulson]

Our monthly meeting will take place on Tuesday, October 19, 2021 beginning at 8:00 PM EDT on our IRC channel, and will last for approximately 2 hours.

Agenda:
Election of Chair
Election of Clerk
Mikkel Paulson to move discussion of the by-election in Winnipeg North

[Sean Hunt]

During some discussion about the meeting, I came up with a draft rule (available at http://piratepad.ca/MkBPF6mAp8) to detail the moderation committee. I do not feel that it needs immediate adoption, however, I do feel that a rule of similar substance should be adopted before it becomes necessary, because we don't want it to ever become necessary. I will move its adoption myself if I am not chair and if the rest of the meeting is short. In the likely event that that is not the case, anyone else would be free to move its adoption during the meeting if they so choose.

[Rintaran]

Attendance:

AdamS
copporo
DLS
Jeremy
MissKitty
MikkelPaulson
Rintaran
sidek (late - 21:43)
Nuitari (late - 21:19)
doconner (late - 21:22)

20:00 -- MikkelPaulson called the meeting to order
20:00 -- Discussion of Chair and Clerk Positions

Chair:

The person in charge of general meetings. The chair moderates debate, establishes agendas, and can
accept motions and censor disruptive attendees.

Clerk:

Responsible for taking votes, publishing minutes, and keeping a record of documents and motions
passed. The clerk should have sole access to voting records. Allowing directors access to this data
would give us the opportunity to falsify votes. Since this information is published to the forum, it
provides another good reason to remove directors from roles as forum moderators. The clerk should
either have basic PHP/MySQL experience or app

20:08 Voice vote was taken on electing Copporo as Chair
         Yays: 5  Nays: 0  Abs: 2
   Copporo elected Chair

20:09 Voice vote was taken on electing Rintaran as Clerk
   Yays: 5  Nays: 0  Abs: 2
   Rintaran elected Clerk

20:13 Copporo states rules of order:

First, we will be running under a different meeting procedure from previous meetings. For the most
part, this shouldn't matter, but if you have any questions, you don't know how to do something, etc.
, please PM me.

I will not participate in discussion without ceding the chair (ideally to MikkelPaulson as party
leader), except to add information.

I will not vote unless it affects the outcome

If you want a vote to be exposed to the whole party, unless it's required to be done that way, it
requires a majority to put the motion before the whole party. Otherwise votes will be taken only
from those present

20:23 MikkelPaulson opened discussion on on the matter of the Winnipeg North by-election
21:00 Rintaran moved that the party seek to run someone in a by-election in Winnipeg North, and if
no local candidate steps forward, Mikkel be granted the opportunity to run as per the pirate party
condidacy procedure.
21:00 MikkelPaulson moved that the motion as stated be considered informally, and that coppro leave
the chair to be able to join discussion
21:01 Motion discussed informally.
21:53 Copporo closed informal discussion.
21:53 Copporo moved that the motion be non-debatable.

21:53 Vote commenced. Yays: 5 Nays: 0 Abs: 4 Motion passed.

21:54 Vote on Rintaran's motion (that the party seek to run someone in a by-election in Winnipeg
North, and if no local candidate steps forward, Mikkel be granted the opportunity to run as per the
pirate party condidacy procedure) commenced.
   Yays: 5  Nays: 0  Abs: 4
   Motion passed.

22:00 Meeting adjourned.

[Rintaran]

[20:00] <@MikkelPaulson> okay, it's 8:00 EDT
[20:00] <@MikkelPaulson> so as leader I'll call this meeting to order
[20:00] <highvoltage> yay
[20:00] <@MikkelPaulson> until we can elect a proper chair for future meetings
[20:00] <@MikkelPaulson> thanks for coming, folks
[20:01] <DLS> what's the agenda for tonight?
[20:01] <@MikkelPaulson> first order of business would be the chair and clerk, which will be elected positions from this point forward
[20:01] <@MikkelPaulson> right now we have exactly one candidate for each
[20:01] <@MikkelPaulson> coppro for chair, and rintaran for clerk
[20:01] <@MikkelPaulson> if anyone else would be interested in standing against them for election, now's the time
[20:01] <@MikkelPaulson> job descriptions
[20:01] <@MikkelPaulson> Chair (currently appointed on a per-meeting basis)
[20:01] <@MikkelPaulson> The person in charge of general meetings. The chair moderates debate, establishes agendas, and can accept motions and censor
disruptive attendees.
[20:01] <@MikkelPaulson> Clerk (currently Mikkel)
[20:01] <@MikkelPaulson> Responsible for taking votes, publishing minutes, and keeping a record of documents and motions passed. The clerk should have
sole access to voting records. Allowing directors access to this data would give us the opportunity to falsify votes. Since this information is
published to the forum, it provides another good reason to remove directors from roles as forum moderators. The clerk should either have basic PHP/MySQL
experience or app
[20:02] <DLS> that's awesome, very well put
[20:02] <@MikkelPaulson> any other candidates?
[20:02] <rintaran> Was the PHP/MySQL part listed on the site? I don't remember reading that bit.
[20:03] <@MikkelPaulson> yeah sorry, I added that after you volunteered
[20:03] <@MikkelPaulson> and I think we're going to use the wiki instead
[20:03] <@MikkelPaulson> so don't sweat it
[20:03] <rintaran> Wiki I can handle. I know a little bit of PHP, but almost nothign of MySQL.
[20:04] <@MikkelPaulson> right now our public and telephone votes are stored in a MySQL database, to which ideally you should be the only person with
access
[20:05] <@MikkelPaulson> well, seeing no other candidates, I declare coppro elected for the position of chair and rintaran for the position of clerk,
both by acclamation
[20:05] <@MikkelPaulson> congratulations, gentlemen
[20:05] <rintaran> Cool.
[20:05] <MissKitty> so say we all
[20:06] <@MikkelPaulson> I'll give you a run-down of the responsibilities later on
[20:06] <@MikkelPaulson> I don't think coppro was able to be with us tonight, so we'll need someone to chair this meeting
[20:06] <@MikkelPaulson> any volunteers?
[20:06] <rintaran> Elected to two things in as many months. lol
[20:06] <DLS> coppro, rintaran, congrats
[20:06] <@MikkelPaulson> quiet bunch tonight, huh?
[20:07] * coppro is back
[20:07] <coppro> oh
[20:07] <@MikkelPaulson> brilliant timing
[20:07] <coppro> these positions should not be done by acclamation
[20:07] <coppro> they need to be confirmed by a majority
[20:07] <@MikkelPaulson> very well
[20:07] <MissKitty> don't we need to verify before voting?
[20:07] <@MikkelPaulson> we don't have a clerk right now
[20:08] <@MikkelPaulson> so a voice vote should suffice
[20:08] <MissKitty> oh, sry...
[20:08] <coppro> you could just try to do it by consent
[20:08] <coppro> I don't see any issues in the logs
[20:08] <@MikkelPaulson> all in favour of coppro's appointment please say aye, all opposed say no

[20:08] Vote was taken on Chair. 5 Ayes 0 Nays 2 Abstain.

[20:09] <@MikkelPaulson> all in favour of rintaran's appointment as clerk please say aye, all opposed say no

[20:10] Vote was taken on Clerk. 5 Ayes 0 Nays 2 Abstain.

[20:10] <coppro> Do we have a mass highlight available?
[20:10] <@MikkelPaulson> the ayes have it
[20:10] <@MikkelPaulson> coppro and rintaran are elected chair and clerk, respectively
[20:10] <@MikkelPaulson> what do you mean?
[20:11] <coppro> to ping everyone
[20:11] <@MikkelPaulson> nope
[20:11] <@MikkelPaulson> I now cede the chair to coppro
[20:12] <@coppro> |R zeroedout vino sta1ns sleslie Silke sidek rush Roderick piratedu Name141 Mogwai LUF lcameron Joshua jethomas Jeremy JayEmerson
highvoltage Fal` Doublethink doconnor DLS dj_datavirus627 dichter Cyan Azalyn afk AdamS coreymon77 Nuitari: meeting
[20:12] <MikkelPaulson> that'll do in a pinch
[20:12] <Jeremy> yay
[20:12] <coreymon77> shmeh?
[20:13] <@coppro> Okay. Before we begin, a few notes: First, we will be running under a different meeting procedure from previous meetings. For the most
part, this shouldn't matter, but if you have any questions, you don't know how to do something, etc. , please PM me.
[20:14] <@coppro> I will not participate in discussion without ceding the chair (ideally to MikkelPaulson as party leader), except to add information.
[20:14] <@coppro> I will not vote unless it affects the outcome
[20:15] <@coppro> If you want a vote to be exposed to the whole party, unless it's required to be done that way, it requires a majority to put the
motion before the whole party. Otherwise votes will be taken only from those present
[20:15] <@coppro> rintaran: As clerk, you will be identifying voters?
[20:16] <@coppro> I'd appreciate you +v them to make it easy
[20:16] <@rintaran> I believe so.
[20:16] <@rintaran> Yup. Verified. I do. People PM me their ID numbers, and then just PM me their votes as we go along.
[20:17] <@coppro> I would prefer doing voice votes as it's faster
[20:17] <@coppro> since the results should be immediately obvious
[20:17] <MikkelPaulson> coppro: if we are to have periods during which only certain members are permitted to speak, we shouldn't +v anyone else
[20:17] <@coppro> I would prefer to selectively deal with those as necessary
[20:18] <MikkelPaulson> very well
[20:18] <@coppro> Giving +v makes it immediately obvious who can vote if we take voice votes
[20:18] <MikkelPaulson> voice votes are fine for motions to amend or adjourn, but for the substantive matters that will go to web and telephone voting,
we should do it by PM
[20:18] <@rintaran> I don't need your ID and PIN now... We don't have any silent votes required right now.
[20:18] <@coppro> If they will go out, yes, I agree
[20:19] <MikkelPaulson> anyway, enough procedure
[20:19] <@coppro> rintaran: We should make sure people are identified so that they can be identified in proceedings
[20:19] <@coppro> plus identifying in advance is good
[20:19] <DLS> we've always identified at the beg. of the meeting
[20:19] <@rintaran> Alright. Haven't been to too many of them yet.
[20:20] <@coppro> Apologies for the delay, by the way, hopefully we'll sort this out in the future
[20:20] <DLS> hrr
[20:20] *** -coppro@#canada- Everyone, please send your member IDs and PINs to rintaran for identification
[20:21] <MikkelPaulson> you should have received both ID and PIN by email
[20:21] <MikkelPaulson> or in the mail attached to your beautiful membership card
[20:21] <DLS> (very) beautiful
[20:21] <MikkelPaulson>
[20:22] <@coppro> there, now you can +v and we're distinct (please +v members as they identify)
[20:22] <MissKitty> pm rintaran
[20:22] <@coppro> Okay, with that, let's begin. Do we have business
[20:22] <MissKitty> sorry
[20:22] <@coppro> ?
[20:22] <MikkelPaulson> very well
[20:23] <MikkelPaulson> I'd like to move a 20-minute discussion on the matter of the Winnipeg North by-election
[20:23] <%rintaran> +v MikkelPaulson
[20:23] <%rintaran> lol. That's not how that works. lol
[20:23] <MikkelPaulson> rintaran: /mode +v MikkelPaulson
[20:23] <@coppro> rintaran: /voice or /mode +v
[20:23] <%rintaran> Got it.
[20:23] <@coppro> Okay, is there a second?
[20:23] <MissKitty> second
[20:24] <@coppro> Okay, the motion is that there be a 20-minute discussion of the Winnipeg North by-election. Any objections?
[20:24] <@coppro> Very well, the motion carries
[20:24] <@coppro> Discussion is open
[20:25] <MikkelPaulson> okay
[20:25] <MikkelPaulson> this is something that has been addressed quite a few times before
[20:25] <MikkelPaulson> but we have some major movements in that regard
[20:25] <MikkelPaulson> I will be travelling to Winnipeg October 23–28 to coordinate operations there
[20:26] <MissKitty> date of by-election?
[20:26] <MikkelPaulson> not set yet, but it has to be called before the 27th
[20:26] <DLS> MikkelPaulson: where do you plan on staying?
[20:26] <MikkelPaulson> the 25th is the earliest date for the by-election in Vaughan and the 27th is the latest for Winnipeg North
[20:27] <MikkelPaulson> so assuming that Elections Canada wants to save effort by doing them simultaneously it'll probably be in that window
[20:27] <MikkelPaulson> dls: at the hostel there
[20:27] <MikkelPaulson> we're not exactly made of money, and it's always nice to have leftovers to spend on the campaign
[20:27] <DLS> i sure woulda wished some local PPCA supported could host you
[20:28] <DLS> "support"
[20:28] <MissKitty> that would have been great...
[20:28] <MikkelPaulson> well, I'll ask if anyone would be willing to do so while I'm out there, but I don't want to take it for granted
[20:28] <DLS> and build a team while you're at least, some core
[20:28] <MikkelPaulson> we don't have any activity at all in Winnipeg right now
[20:28] <MikkelPaulson> so it's my job to stir things up
[20:28] <MissKitty> no members at all?
[20:28] <MikkelPaulson> about 60 members
[20:28] <MikkelPaulson> none active
[20:28] <DLS> bah, it only takes 1 phonecall
[20:28] <MikkelPaulson> except Biogrand, a little bit
[20:29] <MikkelPaulson> it took 60 phone calls
[20:29] <DLS> :~
[20:29] <MikkelPaulson> and we should have between 20 and 30 people at the meeting I've scheduled on the day of my arrival
[20:29] <DLS> nice
[20:29] <MikkelPaulson> that's what I mean when I say stir things up
[20:29] <MikkelPaulson> I will be looking for locals who might want to stand for election in my place
[20:29] <MissKitty> sweet
[20:29] <MikkelPaulson> since ideally we'll have a candidate from Winnipeg who is able to be there for the entire campaign
[20:29] <DLS> that's awesome
[20:30] <MikkelPaulson> I can do it in a pinch, but the time I've spent in Winnipeg before is measured in hours
[20:30] <MikkelPaulson> and not into the double digits either
[20:30] *** doconnor has quit IRC: Ping timeout
[20:30] <MikkelPaulson> I'll also be looking for an agent/campaign manager and PR manager
[20:30] <MikkelPaulson> so hopefully we'll get some volunteers there
[20:31] <MissKitty> wow, this is really going to happen
[20:31] <DLS> so what's the planned budget for that?
[20:31] <MikkelPaulson> my trip will cost about $700
[20:31] <MikkelPaulson> we have $1300 in total available for the campaign
[20:31] <DLS> i guess i'm ready to vote
[20:32] <MikkelPaulson> although as soon as I (or another candidate) is registered, we will be able to issue tax receipts
[20:32] <MikkelPaulson> which will hopefully open new revenue streams
[20:32] <DLS> it will
[20:32] <MissKitty> donations will pick up
[20:32] <MikkelPaulson> this is one major reason for wanting to contest this by-election
[20:32] <PirateFox> I can't do anything locally, but I'm very good with writing, and if you'd want, I'd be willing to handle the media
releases/responses.
[20:32] <%rintaran> Definitely. Once registered, the Ottawa Chapter will be able to hold a couple fund-raisers.
[20:32] <%rintaran> I think that's going to be a part of the discussion on the 6th for our local meeting.
[20:32] <MikkelPaulson> it will also make us the first registered pirate party outside of Europe, and whoever stands for election the first candidate
[20:33] <MissKitty> Nice!
[20:33] <DLS> MtotheL
[20:33] * DLS cheers
[20:33] *** doconnor has joined #canada
[20:33] <MikkelPaulson> rintaran: with luck, we will be a registered party by the time your meeting takes place
[20:34] <%rintaran> Luck has nothing to do with it. It's all planning.
[20:34] <%rintaran> And more importantly, execution.
[20:34] <MikkelPaulson> indeed
[20:34] <doconnor> Do you have a pamphet to hand out on the campaign trail?
[20:34] <MikkelPaulson> not yet
[20:34] <MikkelPaulson> nor do we have business cards
[20:35] <PirateFox> Well since that's the only thing I can help with, I guess I can't do anything to help the campaign.
[20:35] <%rintaran> Is the style guide still not completed re: business cards/pamphlets? Or are they just en-route to printers?
[20:35] <MikkelPaulson> wouldn't your writing skills go more to waste if we DID already have something written?
[20:35] <PirateFox> yes
[20:35] <MikkelPaulson> rintaran: the style guide hasn't been started, except in general terms
[20:36] <%rintaran> Ah
[20:36] <MissKitty> did a visual identity committee materialize>
[20:36] <PirateFox> But you might need someone handling the press. Especially if the US media decide to do news bites on it
[20:36] <MissKitty> ?
[20:36] <MikkelPaulson> yes
[20:36] <MikkelPaulson> it's there
[20:36] <MikkelPaulson> but it hasn't done anything yet
[20:37] <MikkelPaulson> we've been a bit distracted with more immediate concerns
[20:37] <%rintaran> Or hasn't released anything yet.
[20:38] <MikkelPaulson> PirateFox: we do have a PR manager and spokesman, but neither of them have been able to be as engaged as I would like of late
[20:38] <PirateFox> I would, however need a sheet of pointers so I could get things straight. Could someone produce a notarized list of info about us
and our positions for use with the media?
[20:38] <PirateFox> Ah ok
[20:38] <MikkelPaulson> I will be appointing a local PR contact in Winnipeg for the campaign coverage
[20:38] <%rintaran> Ok. So you're flying out to Winnipeg, to have a meeting with local pirates. You have no brochures or business cards. And you're
still looking to drum up a local candidate if at all possible? I have that right?
[20:38] <PirateFox> Are you sure just one person would be able to handle it?
[20:38] <MikkelPaulson> basically
[20:39] <MikkelPaulson> the media? yes
[20:39] <%rintaran> Alright. Making sure I'm up to speed on the facts.
[20:39] <MikkelPaulson> we're making waves, but they're not very big waves
[20:39] <PirateFox> ok, as long as you're sure
[20:39] <MikkelPaulson> any help is always welcome, of course
[20:39] <MikkelPaulson> if you're interested, I'd love to have you on the PR committee
[20:39] <MissKitty> big waves have to start somewhere
[20:39] <PirateFox> k
[20:39] <DLS> to keep things simple, by running in W-N we will be eligible to give receipts for donations
[20:40] <PirateFox> Oh. I'd love that, MikkelPaulson.
[20:40] <MikkelPaulson> and with the media focusing specifically on the by-election, that's some pretty good coverage across the board
[20:40] <MikkelPaulson> PirateFox: email [email protected]
[20:40] <PirateFox> I'm good with explaining things I feel strongly about
[20:40] <PirateFox> ok I will. Going to go pick up some dinner first
[20:40] <MikkelPaulson> sounds lovely
[20:41] <PirateFox> Can't concentrate while hungry very well. Be back in about 30 mins
[20:41] <DLS> voting's in 2 mins :\
[20:41] <DLS> don't leave now
[20:41] <MikkelPaulson> no vote
[20:41] <MikkelPaulson> this is just a discussion period
[20:41] <MikkelPaulson> anyway, that's the plan as it stands now
[20:42] <DLS> discussion, then vote?
[20:42] <MikkelPaulson> if you know anyone in Winnipeg, tell them to attend
[20:42] <DLS> i thoughed that's how things were done
[20:42] <MikkelPaulson> no, I just moved for a discussion period
[20:42] <MikkelPaulson> this isn't a motion
[20:42] <@coppro> The motion to hold a discussion period was adopted by consent
[20:42] <MikkelPaulson> anyway, are there any additional questions or comments about that?
[20:42] <%rintaran> Do you have any materials to bring with you to the meeting? What discussion topics are you planning to bring up?
[20:43] <MikkelPaulson> I'm planning to outline our platform in brief, ask for volunteers for specific roles, then discuss campaign strategies for the
coming days
[20:43] <%rintaran> Aside from "we could use a local candidate)
[20:43] <PirateFox> o
[20:43] <MissKitty> will you be door-knocking in the constituency?
[20:43] <MikkelPaulson> yes
[20:43] <MikkelPaulson> we need to collect 100 signatures for the nomination form
[20:43] <%rintaran> Perhaps we can assist with coming up with soem campaign strategies while we're still in discussion?
[20:44] <DLS> you should bring stickers to colleges
[20:44] <MikkelPaulson> dls: oh I will
[20:44] <MissKitty> yes, you should visit the university
[20:44] <MikkelPaulson> and shirts
[20:44] <MikkelPaulson> the meeting is at the university
[20:44] <MikkelPaulson> we're renting a classroom
[20:44] <PirateFox> Ask if the big-box retailers would let you talk to people in front of the store in the parking lot
[20:44] <DLS> awesome
[20:44] <PirateFox> But they might be hostile, your choice
[20:45] <MissKitty> maybe a barbecue in the parking lot?
[20:45] <PirateFox> sure
[20:45] <MikkelPaulson> PirateFox: they have no choice
[20:45] <DLS> MikkelPaulson: you'll need a pirate flag
[20:45] <PirateFox> You could bribe em with proceeds
[20:45] <DLS> for a BBQ
[20:45] <PirateFox> say, 10%
[20:45] <MikkelPaulson> public places, even privately-owned, must grant registered candidates access for campaigning purposes
[20:45] <PirateFox> And sell hot dogs and bbq stuff
[20:45] <PirateFox> ahhh ok
[20:45] <MikkelPaulson> anyway, in light of discussion, I move that the discussion period be extended indefinitely, and that coppro be granted
permission to leave the chair to make additional comments on this matter
[20:46] <MissKitty> second
[20:46] <@coppro> May I make a suggestion?
[20:46] <PirateFox> third
[20:46] <MikkelPaulson> by all means
[20:46] <%rintaran> Holding a BBQ is a little more complicated than just setting up and going. There are a lot of licenses that you have to pay to
acquire. Should be able to manage with the funds available, but it'll deplete a chunk.
[20:46] <@coppro> If there is no substantiative business, we should simply adjourn the meeting and discuss informally
[20:46] <DLS> coppro: if there is no agenda, most def
[20:46] <MikkelPaulson> coppro: that would leave this off the record, would it not?
[20:46] <PirateFox> Agreed
[20:47] <@coppro> MikkelPaulson: The clerk could be directed to produce a transcript
[20:47] <@coppro> or just to do it anyways
[20:47] <PirateFox> Our decisions aren't suitably ordered to deserve a meeting at the current time
[20:47] <@coppro> *just do it anyways
[20:47] <PirateFox> Discussions, rather
[20:47] <%rintaran> I plan to post minutes up to this point at the least. Posting a transcript would be simple enough in addition.
[20:47] <@coppro> If anyone predicts a substantiative motion may arise, then we probably want to recess the meeting
[20:48] <PirateFox> I think we should make a list of what things we need to plan for, by section, and discuss each one. EG recruiting candidates,
canvassing, etc
[20:49] <PirateFox> Agree?
[20:49] <@coppro> Alternatively, we could proceed to informal consideration of a dummy motion
[20:49] <@coppro> (such as a motion to encourage the party to pursue interest in Winnipeg)
[20:49] <%rintaran> Creating a critical path for the election would be helpful.
[20:49] <%rintaran> It could then be used as the starting point for future elections.
[20:50] <@coppro> At this point, the discussion is over
[20:50] <@coppro> and just the procedural discussion should be taking place - I imagine the discussion of the election will repoen one way or another
[20:50] <Jeremy> unrelated to winnipeg, can anyone give me a ballpark of how many members we have in the toronto area?
[20:51] <@coppro> MikkelPaulson: do you wish towithdraw your motion, or shall I state it as it stands?
[20:51] <@coppro> *withdraw or amend
[20:51] <MikkelPaulson> I'll withdraw it for the time being
[20:51] <@coppro> ok
[20:52] <@coppro> Any other motions?
[20:52] <MikkelPaulson> Jeremy: 200ish
[20:52] <MikkelPaulson> 150?
[20:52] * lcameron thinks he forgot about a meeting...
[20:52] <MikkelPaulson> very few of them are active
[20:52] <@coppro> I will adjourn the meeting if there areting if there is no other motions?
[20:52] <Jeremy> this is my first meeting (that I've attended), would discussing toronto be a motion?
[20:53] <@coppro> Jeremy: If you wish to open it in context of the meeting, it should be.
[20:53] <Jeremy> I'm wondering whether it is worthwhile to try to set up local meetings and activity here
[20:53] <MikkelPaulson> always
[20:53] <MikkelPaulson> I was there a couple of months ago and arranged a meeting
[20:53] <MikkelPaulson> promoted it on Facebook, Twitter, and the forum
[20:53] <@coppro> Personally, I would recommend that at we either a) adjoiurn the meeting or b) put forth a motion directing the party to seek a by-
election in <FOO> and then discuss the strategy
[20:53] <Jeremy> how many people attended?
[20:54] <MissKitty> if meeting is adjourned, will (informal) discussion continue on by-election?
[20:54] <MikkelPaulson> 3
[20:54] <MikkelPaulson> including my two sisters
[20:54] <@coppro> MissKitty: I imagine
[20:54] <MikkelPaulson> who planned to leave if anyone else showed and we started talking shop
[20:54] <MissKitty> ok
[20:54] <MikkelPaulson> wasn't our finest hour
[20:54] <@coppro> sorry, my connection is laggy
[20:54] <@coppro> Does anyone wish to put forth a motion? This is the last call
[20:54] <%rintaran> Mikkel. There was a big concert here in Ottawa. 5 bands. They did all their advertising the same way. 17 people showed up.
[20:55] <%rintaran> People still rely on more traditional methods for their communication and advertising, as much as it is changing.
[20:55] <MissKitty> so we go old school, put up posters etc.?
[20:55] <%rintaran> Don't feel bad about it. The planner was also a seasoned vet. Runs the folk festival here for past 20 years.
[20:56] <MikkelPaulson> MissKitty: and phone people
[20:57] <%rintaran> But, back on topic, I move that the party seek to run someone in a by-election in Winnepeg North.
[20:57] <MissKitty> amend motion to state that, if no local candidate, Mikkel will run
[20:57] <%rintaran> I will happily restate.
[20:58] <MikkelPaulson> I am already running for candidacy by our established procedure
[20:58] <@coppro> okay, I will take that as a second
[20:58] <MikkelPaulson> it doesn't need any further consideration
[20:58] <MikkelPaulson> but I will stand aside or I can be voted out if someone else comes forward
[20:59] <@coppro> rintaran: Do you wish to submit the motion as restated?
[21:00] <@coppro> ...
[21:00] <%rintaran> Yes: I move that the party seek to run someone in a by-election in Winnipeg North, and if no local candidate steps forward, Mikkel
be granted the opportunity to run as per the pirate party condidacy procedure.
[21:00] <MikkelPaulson> I move that the motion as stated be considered informally, and that coppro leave the chair to be able to join discussion
[21:00] <DLS> seconded
[21:00] <@coppro> The motion is as stated by rintaran
[21:00] <%rintaran> Which are you seconding DLS?
[21:01] <@coppro> Then we'll add Mikkel's motion that it be considered informally
[21:01] <DLS> Mikkel's
[21:01] <@coppro> Are there any objections to informal consideration?
[21:01] <%rintaran> I have no real objection.
[21:01] <%rintaran> Was just trying to move along the meeting.
[21:02] <@coppro> Okay, we will proceed with informal consideration. I will keep my +o so that someone has it, but will otherwise not be the chari - though I may chide someone for getting offtopic

[Rintaran]

[21:02] <MikkelPaulson> works for me
[21:02] <MissKitty> sounds good
[21:02] <MikkelPaulson> back to business, then?
[21:02] <%rintaran> So is this the end of the "official" meeting then?  For the purpose of my minutes...
[21:02] <MikkelPaulson> no
[21:02] <MikkelPaulson> it's a motion
[21:02] <%rintaran> Ok. just verifying.
[21:03] <@coppro> (Link: http://www.rulesonline.com/rror-09.htm#57)http://www.rulesonline.com/rror-09.htm#57 <-- informal consideration
[21:03] <@coppro> I'm not entirely sure if I have a lot to add at this point
[21:03] <@coppro> except that we really really need business cards
[21:03] <MissKitty> thanks coppro
[21:03] <MikkelPaulson> indeed
[21:03] <MissKitty> ...for link
[21:04] <MikkelPaulson> business cards are a significant expense and have to be purchased in large quantities, so I've wanted to hold off on them until
we have a style guide available
[21:04] <@coppro> I'm currently engaged in an election to my university government; business cards are/were my first priority
[21:04] <%rintaran> What of temporary cards for the interim of this by-election?
[21:04] <MikkelPaulson> unfortunately that was supposed to happen 6 months ago and hasn't yet
[21:04] <@coppro> I think that if we are going to be campaigning, we /need/ cards
[21:04] <DLS> we need cards.
[21:05] <MissKitty> so, not possible to put together interim materials?
[21:05] <MikkelPaulson> I'll throw something together tomorrow and get it printed
[21:05] <@coppro> interim materials would be preferable
[21:05] <DLS> if we're going to campaign, we'll need flyers on top of that
[21:05] <@coppro> and printing 500 cards, while not the most price-effective, is still fairly cheap at most shops and definitely worth it
[21:05] <MikkelPaulson> of course, if we do get a local to run there, we'd need new cards for themw
[21:05] <@coppro> flyers are definitely good too
[21:05] <%rintaran> Mikkel, when you have a basic template together, can you e-mail it to me? I want to print some up for ZBlewski prior to the Ottawa
meeting.
[21:06] <DLS> wasn't Jake working on that?
[21:06] <MikkelPaulson> I haven't heard from him in a while
[21:06] <%rintaran> I've got about 400 avery business cards that I can donate to the local bit, for the interim.
[21:07] <MissKitty> I'd like to help out with a template or with quickly-put-together flyers etc., with my meagre skills
[21:07] <MikkelPaulson> we have a design that just needs approval
[21:07] <DLS> MissKitty: sexy skills?
[21:07] <MissKitty> or posters...
[21:07] <@coppro> approval by?
[21:07] <MikkelPaulson> us
[21:07] <MissKitty> DLS: I did say meagre
[21:07] <@coppro> oh, excellent, we happen to be here right now
[21:07] <MikkelPaulson> (Link: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/68829/PPCA%20Business%20Card.svg)http://dl.dropbox.com/u/68829/PPCA%20Business%20Card.svg
[21:07] <@coppro> we should approve them
[21:08] <MikkelPaulson> they do need some tweaks
[21:08] <DLS> MissKitty: sounded sexier than what i got
[21:08] <MissKitty> can we approve the cards with a motion?
[21:08] <@coppro> MissKitty: It's easier to enumerate what we can't do
[21:09] <@coppro> (meet quorum, for one *whistles*
[21:09] <MikkelPaulson> ultimate authority lies with the general meetings, so yes you can
[21:09] <MikkelPaulson> but it's better to do it at the Federal Council IMO
[21:09] <%rintaran> I like them. Would a secondary black-only design be an acceptable alternative for "interim" moments when waiting for official cards?
[21:09] <MikkelPaulson> because we usually work on consensus and can refine stuff until it suits everyone
[21:09] <@coppro> the two issues I see are the big black bar and the text position at thebottom
[21:10] <MikkelPaulson> black bar?
[21:10] <@coppro> (the url is cut off on the lower card)
[21:10] <@coppro> behind the upper card
[21:10] <MikkelPaulson> that may just be your browser's SVG rendering
[21:10] <%rintaran> I see it too.
[21:10] <MikkelPaulson> (Link: http://grab.by/6WZy)http://grab.by/6WZy
[21:11] <MissKitty> looks ok in Firefox
[21:11] <@coppro> we could approve it as an interim design
[21:11] <MikkelPaulson> no need to go interim
[21:12] <%rintaran> Again, would an all-black version also be alright as an interim alternative?
[21:12] <MikkelPaulson> we'll finish and approve it at the Federal Council meeting on Thursday
[21:12] <@coppro> oh ok
[21:12] <MikkelPaulson> sure
[21:12] <MissKitty> rintaran: to save on cost?
[21:12] <@coppro> Oh, we should sort of try to be on-topic with the election
[21:12] <MikkelPaulson> inded
[21:12] <MikkelPaulson> *indeed
[21:12] <MissKitty> election materials seem to be an urgent issue
[21:13] <%rintaran> MissKitty:  It would, especially as any interim cards would be printed "at home". As I said, I want to get a handful in the local
director's hands prior to the meeting.
[21:13] <MikkelPaulson> indeed
[21:13] <%rintaran> I also only happen to have a laserjet. So no colour here.
[21:13] <MikkelPaulson> any idea what the turnaround is at Staples?
[21:13] <%rintaran> Depends on quantity and time of year.
[21:14] <MikkelPaulson> well, easy way to find out
[21:14] <%rintaran> I've had small orders processed in an hour or two. Larger and more complicated I've had take 2 weeks.
[21:15] <%rintaran> If you're doing business cards for a single name, it wouldn't take too long unless you were doing a lot.
[21:15] <MikkelPaulson> MissKitty: I did a brochure draft for my campaign in Edmonton Centre that was 8.5x7
[21:15] <MikkelPaulson> so you could print two to a legal-sized page
[21:15] <MikkelPaulson> we're also going to do a generic Pirate Party card
[21:16] <MikkelPaulson> that way we can toss a handful in with every store order and whatnote
[21:16] <MikkelPaulson> *whatnot
[21:16] <MikkelPaulson> brochures can get quite expensive though if you want to deliver one to every door in the riding
[21:17] <MikkelPaulson> 7¢ per brochure * 30–40,000 households = $20–30,000
[21:17] <MikkelPaulson> uh
[21:17] <MikkelPaulson> wait
[21:17] <MikkelPaulson> my calculator hates me
[21:17] <@coppro> we get the message
[21:17] <%rintaran> $2,800
[21:17] <MikkelPaulson> $2–3000
[21:17] <MikkelPaulson> there we go
[21:18] <MikkelPaulson> still a lot by our budget
[21:18] <%rintaran> Far over budget.
[21:18] <MikkelPaulson> in a general election, we're looking at allocating $1000 per riding
[21:18] <MikkelPaulson> Winnipeg North is lucky in getting $1300
[21:18] <%rintaran> Total budget is $1300 - $700 = $600
[21:18] <MikkelPaulson> yup
[21:18] <MikkelPaulson> I really wish my presence weren't eating up half of the campaign budget
[21:18] <MissKitty> Is there an alternative -- like confirming/approving designs that members can print?
[21:19] <MissKitty> Maybe that's dumb...
[21:19] <~Nuitari> not so dumb actually
[21:19] <%rintaran> Actually, hold on. You can halve that calculation for cost of brochures as its 2/page
[21:19] <MikkelPaulson> we'll post .pdf and .odf copies of our publicity docs and stuff like that
[21:19] <~Nuitari> PPSE did use it with good success
[21:19] <%rintaran> If you reduce size to 4/page, that quarters the price.
[21:19] <MikkelPaulson> makes it very hard to get our point across though
[21:19] <MissKitty> and the electronic files themselves may be useful
[21:20] <MikkelPaulson> don't forget, we need to explain why our issues are important, not just what we intend to do about it
[21:20] <AdamS> the paphlets would be pretty small though at 4/page
[21:20] <~Nuitari> it's also possible that we can raise a decent amount of money once registered as the tax stuff kicks in
[21:20] <MikkelPaulson> indeed
[21:20] <MikkelPaulson> hopefully this Winnipeg North campaign will pay for itself
[21:20] <MissKitty> as a non-profit, can we take advantage of special printing services?
[21:21] <~Nuitari> yes and no
[21:21] <MissKitty> There's a place here in Regina that specializes and gives steep discounts
[21:21] <~Nuitari> if it is rates that they do publish for non profits then we can
[21:21] <~Nuitari> if it is a special rate just for us, then the amount of savings can't be above the total contribution of 1100$
[21:21] <MissKitty> and yes, the message has to get out, whatever the medium
[21:22] <%rintaran> There's a way around that too Nuitari
[21:22] <%rintaran> It doesn't count as a "donation" if the provider get something out of it, like publicity.
[21:22] <~Nuitari> I have about 100$ of adwords, and 100$ of linked in promo ads that we can run targetting winnipeg
[21:22] <doconnor> If you can find enough volunteers to deliver fliers, it shouldn't be hard to get enough donations to pay for them.
[21:23] <MissKitty> and, again, maybe volunteers can print a small number of flyers themselves
[21:23] <%rintaran> Or large numbers if they feel particularly generous. lol
[21:24] * @coppro apologizes for the stupid connection and his inability to participate
[21:26] <DLS> coppro: it's easy to say things we can't do
[21:26] <@coppro> DLS: ?
[21:27] <DLS> n/m, lost in backlog
[21:27] <@coppro> ah, ok
[21:27] <DLS> if you can't remember, there's no point in bringing it back
[21:27] <@coppro> Is there any more discussion? if not, we should probably end this
[21:28] <MikkelPaulson> well
[21:28] <MikkelPaulson> I touched on it a bit
[21:28] <MikkelPaulson> but my proposed schedule for the week I'm there
[21:28] <MikkelPaulson> Saturday afternoon–Thursday afternoon
[21:28] <%rintaran> The meeting at the college is when?
[21:29] <MikkelPaulson> haven't heard back from the booking person, but probably 4pm
[21:29] <%rintaran> On the Saturday?
[21:29] <MikkelPaulson> yeah
[21:29] <%rintaran> Ok. So you have Sunday-Thursday for glad-handing, volunteer orientation, brainstorming, and strategizing.
[21:30] <MikkelPaulson> afterwards I'll invite interested volunteers for the official positions to join me for drinks or some such and discuss
responsibilities
[21:30] <MissKitty> rum and lime juice?
[21:30] <MikkelPaulson> Sunday possibly a rally or something, followed by signature-collecting in a public place like a mall
[21:30] <MikkelPaulson> and then during the week strategy meetings and hopefully media interviews during the day and door-knocking in the evening
[21:31] <MikkelPaulson> sound reasonable?
[21:31] <MissKitty> sure
[21:31] <MikkelPaulson> campaigns, especially fought on a budget like ours, are won or lost in the trenches
[21:31] <MissKitty> do you have any interviews scheduled? Releases out?
[21:32] <%rintaran> It does. You should also have some written media releases prepared to be sent to the local papers, including the university paper.
The template can be altered last minute if someone else steps forward to take the candidacy.
[21:32] <MikkelPaulson> working on putting together a contact sheet for that
[21:32] <MikkelPaulson> it's better if the media is alerted in advance
[21:32] <MikkelPaulson> since they'll probably run a list of candidates as soon as the writ drops
[21:33] <%rintaran> Likely have a brief intro page outlining the basics of the candidates too.
[21:33] <MikkelPaulson> yup
[21:33] <%rintaran> Though they tend to release a summary of positions a few days before people hit the polls.
[21:33] <MissKitty> is it likely a Green candidate will run?
[21:33] <@coppro> With any luck they'll consider the presence of a new party to be worth reporting
[21:34] <MikkelPaulson> definitely
[21:34] <MikkelPaulson> I believe one has already been announced
[21:34] <@coppro> the Green candidate ran 308 last election; it's safe to assume they will now participate 100% of the time
[21:34] <@coppro> s/candidate/party/
[21:34] <MikkelPaulson> (Link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_federal_by-elections,_2010#Winnipeg_North)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_federal_by-elections,_2010#Winnipeg_North
[21:34] <MikkelPaulson> John Harvie
[21:34] <MikkelPaulson> coppro: 307
[21:34] <@coppro> they missed one?
[21:35] <MikkelPaulson> the Liberals and Greens agreed not to run candidates in the other party's leader's riding
[21:35] <@coppro> ah
[21:35] <MissKitty> gentlemanly
[21:35] <MikkelPaulson> so the Greens ran no candidate in Etobicoke—Lakeshore
[21:36] <MikkelPaulson> uh, although Wikipedia says otherwise
[21:36] <doconnor> Dion was the leader at the time of the last election
[21:36] <MikkelPaulson> maybe the agreement fell apart
[21:36] <MissKitty> as it so often does....
[21:37] <MikkelPaulson> oh was he? these Liberal leaders come and go so fast, I can't keep track
[21:37] <MikkelPaulson> yeah
[21:37] <MikkelPaulson> (Link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint-Laurent—Cartierville#Election_results)http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint-Laurent—
Cartierville#Election_results
[21:37] <@coppro> hah
[21:38] <MikkelPaulson> anyway, that's all I have to say about that
[21:38] <MikkelPaulson> I'm really hoping we'll be able to find a local candidate
[21:38] <MikkelPaulson> the residents of the riding deserve better
[21:38] <MikkelPaulson> but I'm willing to do my duty if no one else steps forward
[21:38] <@coppro> ok
[21:39] <@coppro> I think I should resume the chair then?
[21:39] <%rintaran> Better than a parachute? Sure. Better than the leader of a party? I dunno about that.
[21:39] <MikkelPaulson> if you have nothing more to add, please do
[21:39] <MissKitty> exactly
[21:40] <MikkelPaulson> maybe, maybe not
[21:40] * @coppro puts back the chair hat
[21:40] <MikkelPaulson> my inexperience with Winnipeg does hamper my ability to run an effective campaign
[21:40] <@coppro> goddanmn this connection
[21:40] <MissKitty> but you have members and volunteers
[21:41] <MikkelPaulson> and part of the party's strength is ironically not in its copyright platform at all but in its willingness to allow its
candidates to choose their own platforms and ultimately its members to vote according to their own consciences
[21:42] <MissKitty> yup -- constituents get someone who actually listens and represents them
[21:42] <MikkelPaulson> we're criticized for not developing a coherent overarching platform, but I find that the media and the public often respond very
well to that
[21:42] <MikkelPaulson> it's novel
[21:42] <MikkelPaulson> people don't expect to see democracy in their politics
[21:42] <MissKitty> proportional representation can't come soon enough for me
[21:42] <@coppro> The motion is that the party seek to run someone in a by-election in Winnipeg North, and if no local candidate steps forward, Mikkel
be granted the opportunity to run as per the pirate party candidacy procedure.
[21:42] <MissKitty> second
[21:42] <@coppro> MissKitty: I'm just restating it, no need to second
[21:43] <sidek> oh crap... forgot today was the 19th
[21:43] <@coppro> Any further discussion?
[21:43] <sidek> alright, how do I authenticate this time around?
[21:43] <MissKitty> coppro: sorry
[21:43] <MikkelPaulson> with rintaran
[21:43] <@coppro> sidek: send to rintaran
[21:43] <sidek> alright
[21:43] <sidek> thanks
[21:43] <MikkelPaulson> I have no further motions at this point
[21:43] <MikkelPaulson> dls: care to make a statement?
[21:44] <PirateFox> back
[21:44] <MikkelPaulson> if he's around
[21:44] <@coppro> PirateFox: is there any further discussion?
[21:44] <PirateFox> hm
[21:45] <@coppro> if not, I will put the question for a vote
[21:45] <PirateFox> I haven't caught up on the log yet
[21:45] <@coppro> would you like me to wait?
[21:45] <MikkelPaulson> go for it
[21:45] <@coppro> ok
[21:46] <MikkelPaulson> since this was treated informally, is there any need to open it to web and telephone voting?
[21:47] <@coppro> There is no need unless it falls into a number of classes of motions, or is put to web and telephone by a majority vote
[21:47] <@coppro> this is not one of them
[21:47] * @coppro is trying to look up those classes
[21:48] <@coppro> motions to change constitution, bylaws, platform, special rules of order, anything requiring notice, disciplinary action, or election
to federal council
[21:49] <@coppro> PirateFox: are you caught up?
[21:50] <MikkelPaulson> let's just conclude this
[21:52] <@coppro> PirateFox: if I don't here from you in 30 seconds, I'm putting the question
[21:52] <MikkelPaulson> coppro: I move that a vote be called
[21:52] <MissKitty> second
[21:53] <@coppro> Okay, that works
[21:53] <@coppro> This motion is nondebatable; all in favor say aye; all against say nay

21:53  Vote commenced. Yays: 5  Nays: 0  Abs: 4.  Motion passed.

[21:54] <@coppro> The motion carries. The motion is that the party seek to run someone in a by-election in Winnipeg North, and if no local candidate

steps forward, Mikkel be granted the opportunity to run as per the pirate party candidacy procedure. All in favor say aye; all against say nay.

21:54  Vote commenced. Yays: 5  Nays: 0  Abs: 4.  Motion passed.

[21:55] <@coppro> The motion carries. Is there any further business?
[21:55] <%rintaran> I don't believe there's anythign requiring formal meeting.
[21:56] <%rintaran> Give PirateFox a moment to see if there's anything they'd like to add.
[21:56] <%rintaran> Probably still catching up.
[21:56] <MikkelPaulson> she
[21:57] <MikkelPaulson> I think dls was going to make a statement, but he seems to be afk
[21:57] <%rintaran> I thought so, but wasn't sure.
[21:57] <MikkelPaulson> well, it's always nice to use a gender-neutral pronoun when in doubt
[21:57] <@coppro> Well, unless there's further business, I will adjourn the meeting
[21:57] <%rintaran> I do my best.
[21:58] <MikkelPaulson> coppro: that has to be done by a motion does it not?
[21:58] <@coppro> MikkelPaulson: not if there is no business
[21:58] <MikkelPaulson> fair enough
[21:58] <@coppro> it would be stupid of us to hang around in a meeting because no one moved anything
[21:58] <MikkelPaulson> indeed
[21:59] <MikkelPaulson> well, thanks for coming folks, and thanks for the feedback on the by-election
[21:59] <MikkelPaulson> I'll post updates to the forum and to my twitter (Link: https://twitter.com/mikkelpaulson)https://twitter.com/mikkelpaulson
[21:59] <MissKitty> v. exciting -- good luck and good hunting Mikkel
[21:59] <@coppro> There is no further business, the meeting stands adjourned.
[22:00] <MikkelPaulson> oh, and
[22:00] * @coppro hangs gavel